Depo of: ROBERT T. FRANK (Davis vs. @trak) 10-26-98 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Page I to Page 20 CONDIENSED TRANSCREPT AND CONCORDANCE PREP@D BY: ACF,F'EDERAL REPORTERS, INC. 1120 G Street, N.W. Suite 500 Washington, DC 20005 Phone: 800-33 FAX: 202-737-3638 I BSA T. FRANK (Davis vs. Amtmk) 10-26-98 XMAX(III) Page I [II] because of the late notice, to do that, although I III IN TliE CIRCUIT COURT 1121 did know that the deposition was to be taken today, I @. IFOR THE CITY OF RICHMOND, VIRGINIA 1131 but I did not know that there was going to be a 131 1141 request for production of documents accompanying 141 ------------------- X the [51 VELDA DAVIS.: 1151 notice to take deposition. [61 Plaintiff, : At LAw Number 1161 NM. HAJEK: Okay. 171 v. : LE-775-4 [171 Whereupon, 181 NATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER: [181 ROBERT T'HOMAS FRANK, igi CORPORATION,: [191 a witness, having been called for examination, and, iioi Defendant. : [20i having been first duly sworn, wm ex@ned and III] ------------------- x 1211 testified as follows: 1121 1221 EXANHNA'NON 1131 Page 4 1141 DEPOSITION OF ROBERT T. FRANK III BY MR. HAJEK: 1151 121 Q Could you please state your full name? 1161 131 A Robert Thomas Frank. 1171 Washington, D. C. 141 Q Andwhatisyouraddress? 1181 Monday, October 26, 1998 151 A Home address? 3906 Manheim Place, 1191 161 Jefferson, Maryland 21755. 1201 REPORTED BY: 171 Q Andwhoisyoureniployer? 1211 DAVID L. HOFFMAN la] A Amtrak, National @er Railroad 11.21 191 Corporation. Page 2 [101 Q And what is your business address? iii Deposition of ROBERT T. FRANK, called for [11] A 1401 W S@, N.E., 20018. 121 examination pursuant to notice of deposition, on [121 Q @t is your present position with Amtrak? 131 Monday, October 26, 1998, in Washington, D.C. at [131 A General ForeFnan. 900 [141 Q And what @s thatjob entail? 141 Second Street, N. E. at 2:00 p.m. before DAVID L. [151 A I'm in charge of the 12@y preventative 151 HOFFMAN, a Notary Public within and for the [161 mainwmnce line, and also car shop. District [171 Q What department are you in? 161 of Columbia, when were present on @lf of the 1181 A Mechanical, MOV. 171 respective parties: 1191 Q Who is your imntediate supervisor? 181 1201 A Mr. Darrell Pesh, @er. 191 FRANCIS P. HAJEK, ESQ. 1211 Q How long have you been with Amtrak? iioi Wilson, Hajek & Shapiro, PC 1221 A Excuse me? iiii 1294 Diamond Springs Road Page 5 1121 Virginia Beach, Virginia 23455-3701 Q How long have you been with Amtrak? 1131 (757) 460-7776 121 A October 3rd, 1983. 1141 On behalf of Plaintiff. [31 Q Can you briefly tell me yourjob history 1151 [41 with Amtrak, going by position and years ofservice 1161 AUBREY RUSSELL BOWLES ]][I, ESQ. [5i in that position? 1171 Bowles and Bowles [61 A Okay, I started out in-as a sheet metal 1181 Two North Fifth Street [71 worker in 1993 to 1993. ii9i Richmond, Virginia 23219-221 8 181 Where then I was promoted to a Mechanical 1201 (804) 643-6768 t9j Fo@ U for one year. 1211 On behalf of Defendant. iioi And then in 1995, 1 was promoted to 11.21 iiii General ForeFnan. Page 3 1121 Q And what are you general duties with lil PROCEEDINGS 1131 respect to 120-preventative mabdine maimenance and 121 (2:00 p.m.) 114] car shop work? 131 MR. BO@ES: I would like to have the 1151 A They would be pertaining to the 141 record show that my office did not receive this until 1161 production, quality, safety, of equipment and 151 Saturday's mail, and consequendy I had no 1171 employees. 161 oppo@ty to respond to the aspect of the notice to [is] Q Howmanyemployeesareunderyour 171 take deposition requesting production of documents, 1191 supervision ? 181 and consequently I have not done so. [201 A One hundred twenty-nine. [91 To the extent that the witness can produce 1211 Q Is Ms. Witley one of the employees under 1101 documents, that's fine, but there was no altemative 1221 your supervision ? ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. 202-347-3700 Page I to Page 5 Depo of-. ROBERT T. F"NK (Davis vs. Amtrak) 10-2&98 XMAX(2/2) Page 6 [121 A Seven years, no; the last rive, yes. I]] A Yes, she is. [131 Q Wouldyouhavethatknowledgeforallof 121 Q Doyouhaveanyinvolvementinthe 1141 Amtrak'ssystem? (31 training ofnew-hire coachlcar cleaners? 1151 A No. [41 A No, sir. 1161 Q Wharwouldyouknowledgebelimitedto? 151 Q Haveyoueverworkedasacarcleaner? 117] A My eznployees. 161 A No, sir. 118] Q Doyouhaveanylaborersunderyour 171 Q Areyoufamiliarwiththetraining ii9i supervision ? 181 materials that are used by coachlcar cleaners? 1201 A Yes, sir. 191 A Yes, sir. 1211 Q Areyouawareof@vinjuriestoanyof 1101 Q And how did vou becomefamiliar with those 1221 Your empl@vees in@lving the I litl materials '7 Page 9 1121 A By-well, I've went to training dassm III A No, sir. 1131 myself, and working with the individual groups. 121 Q Do you know Bruce Williams, a laborer? 1141 Q Andwhendid.voudothat? 131 A Bruce Williarns? I can't recall, no. 1151 A Aboutriveyearsago. 141 Q DoyouknowJohnJones,alaborer? 1161 Q Is the trainingfor coachlcar cleaners 151 A Sounds familiar. 1171 supposed to be uniform within Amtrak? 161 Q Do you know John Phelps, a laborer? 1181 A Yes. 171 A No, sir, not personally, no. 1191 Q Doyouknowwhoisresponsibleforse@g 181 Q Are you aware of any injuries to any of 1201 forth the training guidelinesfor car cleaners? 191 those three men involving the lifting of trash bags? 1211 A That would be in beadquaders in Philly, 1101 A No, sir. 122i and to tell you the truth, no. [II] MR. BOWLES: For the record, I would Page 7 1121 object to questioning with respect to the three III Q Do vou know Velda Davis? [131 individuais involvea, bwause the c;mu@@e" of 121 A No. 1141 their lifting are totally and completely different 131 Q Areyouawarethatshesustainedaninjurv ii5l from the lifting complained of in this case. 14J while workingfor Am@ in March of 1997 as a 1161 BY MR. HAJEK: 151 coachlcar cleaner? 1171 Q Going to Itern No. 2 on the deposition 161 A No. iisi notice, do you have any knowledge with regard to 171 Q Whendtdyoufirstbecomemvolvedinchis ligi Amtrak's-since you don't have any knowledge of work is] c@e? 1201 injuries serforth in Paragraph 1, do you have any [91 A Last week, mikybe, the beginning of last 1211 knowledge of workplace changes that were considered lio] week or the week before. I don't recall. I received 1221 or implemented regarding the nwnner in which workers ]III a fax. Page 10 1121 Q WhoaskedyoutoparTicipateinthecase? [il should move or lift trash bags? [131 A Nlr. Buder. [21 A Yes. 1141 Q Andwhatisyourunderstandingofthe [31 MR.BOWLES: WiLitjustaminutebeforeyou [151 areas that you're going to be testifying about or [41 answer the question. He asked whether he knows 1161 that you're knowledgeable about? about 1171 A I'm sure that I'd be able to answer the [51 injuries duiing a five-year period in regard to 1181 questions adequately to what the job performance 16i employees working under him, so he does have some ar,e. [71 knowledge with reg&H to Number 1. 1191 Q What do you @an by what thejob 181 MR. HAJ-EK: I think he's also said that he 1201 performance is? [91 was not aware of any injuries. 1211 A I guess that's what you're talking about, (101 MR. BOWLES: He was not aware of any 1,21 what the job perforin@ is here of a coach cleaner. Iii] injuries, but he does have some knowledge, which is, Page 8 112] he doesn't know of any; that is some knowledge. III (Frank Deposition Exhibit [13j Now, move on to 2. 121 Number I wm marked for 1141 BY MR. HAJEK: 131 identification.) [151 Q The question is, Mr. Frank, ifyou know of 141 BY MR. HAJEK: 1161 any workplace changes that were considered or 151 Q Lei's take a look at Exhibit Number 1, the 1171 implemented with regard to the manner in which trash i6i notice to take deposition of the most knowledgeable [i8l bags should be lifted or movld? 171 corporate representatives, specifically beginning [191 A No, sir. 181 with Paragraph 1, numbered. 1201 Q @'s go down to Number 3, then. Do you 191 Do you have any knowledge regarding prior (211 have any knowledge as to Amirak's policies and liol worker injuries over the past seven years, involving 122i proceduresforproviding that trash bags were emptied iiii the lifting of trash bags? Page I 1 Page 6 to Page f 202-347-3700 ACE-FIEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. BSA Depo of: ROBERT T. FRANK (Davis vs. AmtriLk) 10-26-98 XMAX(3/3) III ftom Train 84, 86, traveling down to Richmond, Iiij to see how fW[ it is. 121 Virg@ as of March 11, 1997, andlor before that li2] Then at that point, they would open up the 131 titneperiod? 1131 trash receptacle door and they wotdd lift up on the 141 MR. BOWLES: Before he answers the 1141 one end of the tmh container itself, to see how 151 qumtion, the inquiry is slightly inconect, because lisl heavy it is. 161 84 and 86 are northbound trains. They happened to 1161 If they feel that they're capable of be ii7i pulling the container out, then they'll do so. 171 the trains that the coach cle4iners in Richmond would tigi Then what they'll do is, they'll grab the 181 have cleaned because they terminate in Richmond, [igi bag, and they 'II tug on the bag a little bit with and [201 their ringers to see how heavy the bag is. 191 then originate in Richmond and go northbound. [211 And then that vill have a determination of 1101 So, ac@ly, they have different numbers [221 whether they're going to need help with the trash or iiii designating them southbound when the get to Page 14 Richmond. (I] not. MR. HAJEK: Let's ask it generically then. l@] But if the bag is heavy or is presumed 1131 BY MR. 14AJEK: 131 heekvy to then, the trash container would be laid over [141 Q Areyouawareofanyoftheproceduresfor [41 on the side and the tmsh bag pulled out. ii5i the emptying of trash bagsftom Amtrak trains in 151 Q How would it then be removedfrom the car? 116] Richnwnd, Virginia? [61 A The cleaner would either drag it off the 1171 A The only thing that would be the same i7i car. ii8i procedure across the board for all Amtrak. 181 Q W%at were the options, other 1191 Q Whatyou'retellingmeisthatRichmond (91 dragging? Would it be picked up and carried? 120i doesn't have any separate policies or proceduresfor 1101 A Sure, it all depends what the bag weighs. 1211 the entptying of trash bags,- they're the samefor [III Q Atwhatweightwouldyouconsideritrobe 12@.1 every coachlcar cleaner on Amtrak's system? 1121 too heavy to be pulled out of the containerfor Page 12 1131 anybody? [II A That's correct. 1141 A That's up the discretion of the efnployee. 121 Q Andshouldallcoachlcarcleanersreceive 1151 Q Ythe employeefeels capable of handling 131 the same training wiih regard to the removal of trash 1161 100 pounds, they can go ahead andpull the bag out 141 bagsfrom trains? ii7l and drag it to the door? 151 A That's also correct. 1181 A No, I wouldn't say that. No, absolutely 161 Q Is that also tmefor the lifting of trash 1191 not. 171 bags when they're on a particular car? 12ol I believe that there is a restriction of- 181 A That is corrert. 1211 1 don't recall if it's 20 or 25 pounds, that they're 191 Q Do you have any employeesfor which you [221 supposed to be getting help. 1101 have supervisory responsibility who are located in Page 15 iiii Richmond, Virginia? 111 Q Isthatarestrictionthat'sinwriting 1121 A No, sir. 121 somewhere? 1131 Q Do you have any knowledge as to why what (3) A Yes, sir. 1141 car's trash bags would be e?nptied in Richnwnd, (41 Q %%ere would Ifuid that? 1151 Virginia? 151 A I believe that wowd be in their car 1161 A I wowd hope, if any of the cars ftt end 16i deaning books. 1171 up in the Richmond, Virginia for tumaround service [71 Q Was that mm before March of 1997? ii8i cleaning, that they all get-all the bags of trash 181 A Yes. 1191 gets taken out and thrown away. 191 Q Andtheprocedurethatyoujustdescribed 1101 Q Isthatastandardprocedurewhenacaris (101 tome, is that the approprtate procedurefor removing 1211 tumed around at an endpoint destination, that it's iiii a trash bagfrom a car receptacle prior to March of 1221 thoroughly cleaned? 1121 1997? Page 13 [131 A Most derinitely. II] A That's conrect. 1141 Q IsthatprocLdureserdowninwritingin l@l Q Doesathoroughcleaninginvolvethe [151 any location such as a handbook, nianual, tra@g 131 emptying ofall trash receptacles on a particidar [161 guideline, or anything? 141 car? 1171 A I believe so, yes. 151 A That's correct. 1181 Q VAere would ]find it? 161 Q Whatistheappropruueprocedurethat 1191 A That also would be in the car c]eekning 171 should befollowed by a coachlcar cleaner with 1201 ManU&I. 181 regards to emptying a trash receptacle onboard a car? 1211 Q When does the coachlcar cl@ receive a 191 A The coach deaner would rirst open up the [221 Copy of liol flapper door and get a visual look into the container Page 16 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. 202-347-3700 Page II to Page 16 B$A Depo of,. ROBERT T. (Davis vs. Amtrak) 10-26-98 @(4/4) [II A When they go through training. [131 rooms and sinks and your bar areas, food areas; 121 Q And what other areas does that manual 1141 window cleaner for the windows on the interior and 131 address? I i.51 exteiior. 141 A Well, the manual itself, they are given 1161 It's possible that they might be using Isl the manual and then tested on the manual at 1171 some type of gtan-g@ rernover, in order to get 161 ernployment at Amtrak. Then they get recertified gum 171 every year with that manual. 1181 off the carpet or something. That's about it. 181 Q Is it @ical to assign one coachlcar 1191 MR. HAJEK: That's all I have. [91 cleaner per carfor cleaning purposes? 1201 (Whereupon, at 2:20, the taking of the 1101 A Oh, yes. 1211 deposition ceased.) III] Q @t is supposed to be done if there is no 1221 ii2i one available to help and the bag weighs more than Page 19 1131 20-25pounds? [ij I HEREBY CERTIFY that I have read this 1141 A Regardless of the situation, she gets [21 transcript of my deposition and that this transcript li5l help. She can either get help from one of our [3] accumtely states the testimony given by me, with the 1161 counterp@ or from the supervisor. [41 changes or corrrctions, if any, as noted. 1171 Q Do you know who set the limitfor lifting [51 ligl of 20 to 2.5 pounds? [61 1191 A No, sir. [71 X 1201 Q Do you know if there is any kind of 181 1211 ergonomic study of thejob that was performed prior 191 [221 to seuing the limit of 20 to 25 pounds? 110] Page 17 litl Subscribed and swom to before me this day of III A Personally, no, I don't. [121 19. li@l Q Havevouever@anycomplaintsfrom [131 (31 coachlcar cleaners that the bags were consistently [141 141 weighing more than 20 to 25 pounds? [151 [51 A No. [161 X [61 Q Haveyouhadanycomplaintsfromlaborers 1171 Notary Public [71 that the trash bags were heavy? 1181 lal A No. 1191 My conmiission expires: 191 Q Anv conWIaintsftom the car cleaners that 1201 [iol bags are heavy, without regard to any particular 1211 [iij weight? 1221 1121 A No. Page 20 [131 (Pause.) [i) CONTENTS 1141 Q Youtoldimearlierthatyouhadanended [21 WITNESS EXAMINATION 1151 the training sessionfor coachlcar cleaners,- is that [3] Robert T. Frank li6l correct? [41 by Mr. Hajek 4 [171 A Yes. 151 1181 Q Tellmewhatyoudtdasfaras [61 [igi participating in that session? [71 [201 A WeR, they had a lot of informution 191 1211 pertaining to the proper uses of utensils that coach 191 1221 d@ use to scrub cars, to dean cars, what liol EXHIBITS Page 18 [iii DEPOSITION NUMBER IDENTTFIED [ii safety equipment you're supposed to have while [121 Exhibit I - Notice of deposition 8 you're [131 [21 deaning, proper gloves you're supposed to have for [141 131 whatever job that you might be doing. 115] 141 Also that they have a class on how to 1161 151 properly service the toilet on the cars. 1171 [61 Q What is the equipment that is used in 1181 [71 cleaning a car? 1191 181 A It depends on wbat service you're in. 120] 191 Q How about ifyou're in the cleaning of a (211 liol car at the tumaround point? 1221 [III A Basically all that would be was, it wotdd [i,.l be gennicidal. It would be tlsed in areas in the rest Pgge 16 to Page 20 202-347-3700 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.